Using Dodgy Information
Posted on August 29, 2006 by Tariq Nelson
Kashif makes a good point here about some Muslim websites using dodgy information to attack Jews. Problem is that information like this is spread all over the Muslim world and very entrenched. No, the end does NOT justify the means.
Link: Dodgy Jewish Article
UPDATE: For those that do not look at the comments, I forgot to mention other dodgy information spread amongst the Muslims such as The “Gospel of Barnabas” forgery, and the myths that the Jews like the eat the blood of Palestinian children in their cookies during Passover and sell the organs of Palestinians.
Filed under: The Culture of Denial and Pretense
Yep, it is true. It is one of the infections that has come to the Muslim world from Europe. Too bad it didnt stay there.
I dont understand the need to attack Jews based on what Israel does. This is what this all goes back to. There was not this problem with Jews until the issue of Palestine arose.
I love Jewish culture and like the religion, I hate the state of Israel, but for completely different reasons.
You CAN dislike and disagree with the state of Israel and NOT hate Jews. This is what the anti-Semites, nor those pro-Israel Zionists cannot understand.
These people do damage to Islam. If you have an issue with Israel, keep it at that, bashing Jews or Judaism does nothing to further the cause of Palestine, as a matter of fact, it hurts the Palestinian cause.
Abu Sinan:
It was because too many Muslims are following a Machiavellian style of Islam that makes it ok.
Another piece of dodgy information that some Muslims pass around is the so-called “Gospel of Barnabas”. If you want to paint yourself into a corner in a debate, just site the “Gospel of Barnabas” as some type of “proof”
TariqNelson,
I love your name when it is being pronouced by a native Arabic speaker.
Asalaamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu…
Sup brother, I am from Umar Lee’s blog and Indigo Jo if you know Yusuf. Anyway new to meet you.
What do you mean by Machiavellian style Islam? I never finished the Prince. Lazy like that.
Ma salama.
Bikhair
I’m saying that Muslims and Muslim groups have adopted Machiavellian principles such as “Enemy of my ememy is my friend” and “the ends justify the means”. This is how some justify terrorism and other evil such as stealing, food stamp and credit card fraud.
Some extremists even wrote a book saying that it is permissible to steal the wealth of non-Muslims using these Machiavellian principles to justify their arguments flavored with ayaat and ahadith to make it look authentic. They even went even further to say that in the name of “daroorah” one could even drink alcohol, commit zina (”right hand possession”) and act totally irreligious (i.e., the behavior of the 9/11 hijackers) in order to not draw attention to oneself.
All of this is alien to Islam and borrowed from Machiavellian principles
The problem with these Muslims who use this dodgy information about the Jews-such as the protocols, mistranslated or altered Talmudic quotes, and other such information, is that they already had those assumptions there to begin with. They didnt take the time out to learn Judaism as a religion or its theology and jurisprudence (and thats whats contained in the Talmud) with qualified Jewish scholarship or literature.
Now, the exact same thing is happening right now with us. You have tons of Islamophobes out there, especially on the blogs who have no idea about real Islamic scholarship. They simply take their premolded hatred of Islam, and find all the want to justify it. Look at Robert Spencer. This man tries to use our own literature against us. But all he is capable of doing is coming up with the same interpretations as al-Qaidah and others. Hasnt anyone told him about the conditions of Fatwa and the conditions of Ijtihad. Hasnt anyone pointed out that a laymen can not simply extract Ahkam from the books of Fiqh without proper Ijazah.
We face exactly what we have done to the Jews-having ignorant outisiders read mistranslate and misinterpret out own legal texts.
How does it feel for us to be on the recieving end?
I completely agree alkashif: Some of us have gotten into the habit of searching for conspiritorial and diabolical information to justify and further ignite our passions when it comes to the Jews. Needless to say, it’s not important that the information be substantiated - it just needs to fit into our preconceived notions of how ‘evil’ they are. And this material is circulated throughout Islamic email lists and websites as if it’s saheeh.
And I’ve heard so many stories (some maybe true/maybe not - Allahu ‘alam) that you would think that we live in some Hollywood movie where good and evil is black and white with no gray area and of course - we are pristinely good and they are irredeemably evil. And yet, we scream to the heavens when they take our texts out of context without soliciting our scholars to put the rulings in the proper light.
Come think about it, i cant see any real difference between what Robert Spencer of jihad watch churns out, and the stuff the many muslims spread regarding the jews. On the other hand, maybe one difference is that many muslims actually do believe what robert spencer is saying is our din. This leads to another question-is it possible that some jews do actually believe what is said about them in such collections of talmudic (mis)quotes? Maybe there are some. One book you can check out that might substansiate this is the on be Israel Shahak found here>
http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/jewish_history.html
Much of what he says seems to agree with many of the collections found on muslim websites.
TariqNelson,
Ok, now I understand what you are saying. But arent the works of popular “scholars” like Muadudi and Qutb borrowed from Western philosophies? Wasnt Qutb influenced by Alexis Carrol (sp) who was into eugenics, that later facilitated his belief that the whole of the Muslim world is now in a state of jahiliyah?
I have a book entitled The Creed of the Four Imams by TROID publications. It details some of their statements concerning Tawheed, Pre-Decree, Emaan, The Sahabah, and Kalaam and Controversies in the Religion. The footnotes are awesome. It speaks out against Kalaam and how it is used as a substitute for knowledge of the religion.
alKashif,
My question is why do we have to travel all the way to Europe or more specifically Russia and France to find ideas about Jews or Christians? I even heard a Muslim say that the Jews killed Jesus. ASTAGFIRULLAH. Does the Quran and the Sunnah not suffice them?
The main reason I would not have shown the Passion of the Christ is that it is complete kufr. I wont even watch it.
[...] I will add that Jews were at the forefront of the American Civil Rights movement, and American Jews like Julian Rosenwald gave millions of dollars for the establishment of black educational institutions. We don’t hear about this from those who distribute the dodgy information and the insane conpiracy theories that portray Jews as a hive minded power hungry monolith. [...]
Yeah, I have a problem with rampant anti-Semitism in the Muslim world. They act as if Jews are a monolithic group and rarely acknowledge how there are Jews and Israelis on the forefront of fighting for Palestinian rights. I remember years ago, a Jewish American converted to Islam. And this Iranian guy would always crack anti-Semitic jokes in front of him. It was really crass and un-called for. There are Jewish stereotypes in Arab films, don’t get me started on how many Muslims accept the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It really annoys me that new converts are all of a sudden supposed to buy into this and become anti-Semites. It defies reason.
[...] we should have a siege mentality and forget about everything. Or if you don’t buy into their wacky conspiracy theories you must be - in their minds - a [...]
[...] is no need for introspection if you are perfect and the cause of all your problems are those people that eat Arab blood in their cookies and are using Pepsi (Pay Every Penny to Save Israel) as a vehicle for world [...]
Hi folks - here is a youtube of Salam Cafe, a Muslim community TV programme in Melbourne Australia. If you wait until about 2 mins 40 into the programme (after a discussion about the Simpsons being broadcast in Egypt with Homer as Omar!), there is a great story about Muslims and Jews jointly celebrating Ramadan and the Jewish Day of Atonement at a Melbourne synagogue - this is the way forward to understanding (and Salam Cafe looks like a great programme too).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGR-imTISJY
This is a very interesting discussion. Not only are our religions very similar, but the lies people tell about us are very similar. It makes me want to cry, seeing the hatred published about Judaism in the Muslim world, and plenty of people prepared to believe it. The book cited on Jewish Religion and history is, by the way, inaccurate. At the very best it could be said to be wildly out of context and mistaken. But it’s a good example of looking at a small citation and missing the bigger picture.
We need to find ways of countering the misinformation and letting people know the truth - that in my opinion Islam is a holy religion, and although I wouldn’t wish to see any Jews become Muslims (because we already have a covenant with God), I would not have any problem with any true Muslim. I respect you. And I feel that those cited above respect me as a Jew.
There is one small point of difference - Israel. You won’t find may Jews who aren’t zionists. If the world had opened its doors at the Evian conference, there would be no need for a State of Israel. But when it came down to it, there was no room for the Jews anywhere, because the Jews had no country. That is why there has to be a Jewish state.