Islam is not Machiavellian
Posted on July 29, 2006 by Tariq Nelson
Obviously, I don’t know what set this guy off, but I know that I have personally heard some very fiery rhetoric in some masjids that could make someone that is mentally unstable do something very stupid.
The ends do NOT justify the means (i.e., “yeah, but look at what THEY are doing!”). Islam is NOT Machiavellian. The ends do not justify the means.
A Muslim should not kill innocent men, women and children even if their men women and children are being killed. Period
LINK: CAIR and condemns attack on Seattle Jewish Center and Statement from Seattle Muslim Community
**UPDATE: Umar’s take
**UPDATE 2: For those that don’t know, blind hatred and propaganda once led many Muslims to join the Nazis in WWII
Filed under: Sloganism over Reality
Hi, please define the word “innocent” for me.
purple:
“innocent” = non-combatant or civilian
The rhetoric is the real issue that needs to be addressed.
Linking to statements from a group like CAIR doesn’t help my comfort level.
This is so messed up. Leaving aside how ridiculous it was to do this, and how utterly depraved an act it is, I wonder what exactly this guy hoped to accomplish on a purely practical level?
Inna lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raaji’oon wa Allahu musta’aan.
Every day we supplicate to Allah at least 17 times, “Guide us to the Straight Path,” but we must ask ourselves how many of these 17 times is it sincere and from our hearts?
It is very sad to see a “practicing Muslim” who attends Jumu’ah prayer causing such harm the society they are living in on such a blessed day. In addition to that they are actually believing that they are doing a righteous deed that is pleasing to Allah.
Emotionalism is seeming to cause harm on a physical level that Greek philosophy and logic did on a spiritual and ‘aqeedah level to the Ummah and the non-Muslims around us. The two share at least one thing in common: a sincere intention not guided by knowledge.
O Allah guide us to the Straight Path and give us baseerah!
The man was mentally unstable, the news is saying, even as were those few who began assaulting and sometimes killing anyone who “looked” Muslim after 9/11. The Quran is filled with wisdom, adab, and lessons of peace for those that have ears. Alhamdulillah!
Islam is NOT Machiavellian. But some of its Imams and leaders think hate rhetoric is the fastest way to get a following. Such talk appeals to the emotionalism of the nafs.
O Allah, guide us on the straight path to You, the path of loving-kindness, mercy and compassion.
Ya Haqq!
The rhetoric does need to be addressed. I think our problem(our=ummah) is that we are long on talk, but short on real actions, short on talk about realistic ideas.
I think we need to look at the difference between the way the Palestinian fighters have dealt with Israel and the way Hizb’Allah is. One is professional, to the point, and is effective in it’s resistance. The other is completely unprodefessional and has taken getting slaughtered to a new level.
We need to have a real, reality based discourse on how we are going to solve our issues, both internal and external. For now, I suggest our discourse be almost 100% based internally. We cannot change what is happening outside when we are so messed up.
The rhetoric is nonsense and offers no solution to any of our problems. Besides, just because the Israelis are slaughtering Muslims and Christians by the hundreds doesnt mean we should partake in this evil.
I get frustrated, but I never would think of killing civilians. I think this guy was no more rational than those Americans who killed Siekhs and innocent Muslims after 9/11.
La ilaha Ill Allah…
Ignorance, thats what it is ignorance…..
I think the ssue is that the regular jumuah goign crowd isnt educated with the proper methods to deal wth things liek this, all it takes some ignorant short-tempered guy with a nut loose to think he can do it himself his way. May Allah grant us knowledge and wisdom.
I initially assumed based on the commentary given by different people that this man had come from the Jumu’ah prayer at the masjid to then do this shooting, but has this been confirmed? I have read various articles saying that this shooting was done in the morning, in other words before Jumu’ah time.
Also, after reading this news article from a Seattle newspaper, it seems this case appears to be much different than what we have assumed. Allah knows best!
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Yusuf: are you surprised the facts aren’t what were originally reported? It has happened many times before that the criminal acts of individual Muslims, some of them mentally ill and some of them common criminals, are thrown back at the whole community as evidence that Muslims are a danger. The fact is that the Israeli-Palestinian situation has been going on decades and there is no organised effort to bring “pressure” on Jews regarding Israel. You would expect there to have been arson attacks on Jewish-run shops and the like, something similar to the antics of animal rights freaks over here who rob graves, but no such thing has ever happened, which suggests that Muslims are in general not that way inclined.
Wa ‘Alaykum as-Salaam akhee Yusuf Smith, I am not surprised rather I was just saying that as a criticism for myself that perhaps I was a bit too quick to understand the situation due to CAIR’s joint statement along with akhee Umar’s post title, “From the Masjid to shooting six Jews.” You have a very good point regarding the fact that there is no history of Muslims doing these things in large numbers even though the conflict has been going on many years now and I’d like to see this point elaborated upon more. Jazakallahu khayr!
This is only a Naseeha for myself and you. In the beginning I read your blog and Alhamdollilah you seemed to address some critical issues but within a short span of time I realized that you never mention anything positive and you are stuck in a psychosis of pessimism. On top of that when anybody criticizes you, you response is that they misunderstand you ( i.e. “It seems that I have been misunderstood again” in response to Um Abdillah on the Tailand post), which is baseless defense of your points. Akh, people have been on the planet as long/longer than you and believe me , somebody disagreeing with you don’t mean they are stupid not to understand your posts.
The second point is your constant harping about the negative things found in the African American community, not once have I seen you mention anything positive without it being laced with overwhelming unconstructive criticism. Then you talk about people getting married at a young age, and its disasters, and as often the case with certain Islamic Blogs, there is a ‘group think’ mentality, and people jump the gun in agreeing with each other, Umar Lee voices his support that people get married cause they are “horny.” I am glad they get married when they are horny otherwise they might commit Zina. Isn’t one of the aims of marriage to fulfill ones sexual desires, and you know how a hyper sexualized society America is. Then comes that talk about Muslim immigrants succeeding in worldly matters (doctors and what not). For the Sake of Allah, go take a look around and see how “Muslim” those successful doctors are and what percentage of them do actually come to the Masjids in regular basis, and I am especially taking about the younger generation. You are right when you say that the immigrants focus on worldly betterment, but often at the expense of deen, which is often relegated to Jumuah and Eid salats. Is that what you want to achieve. And as for your solutions, not even one word was mentioned about worshiping Allah, following his commands and Akhi you know through the hadeeth, that if you desire Dunya, Allah is going to give you nothing, and if you work for Akhira Allah is going to give you dunya and Akhira. Why don’t you ever talk about people who follow the deen and then excel in their worldly life.
And your last post was definetly the straw, I mean for the Sake of Allah, how many million/gazillion time do we have to condemn such actions, and say We are sorry, and we will put our head up your asses for forgiveness. ‘Islam is Peace’ and then still the same old story. You should know that by now. Ya Tariq how come you never condemn the gang rapes of Muslim Sisters in Gujrat, India. Or at least Make Dua’a for them on your blog, (maybe you do it in your house) just like you condemn the seattle shootings. Oh yeah why not wait a little to see that the Seattle shooter, was baptized, and he was literally LOCO. But no! instead of verifying the news from fasiqoon you believe it wholeheartedly.
Salaam ‘Alaikum
I am *so* not offering any further comments on this Seattle issue, but I have to jump in on behalf of brother Tariq. First, he has offered constructive ideas in the past, and has said he will do so in the future. And we know he’s done stuff in his *real life* (where it may matter more).
I too, often get sick of reading criticism of Muslims and the talking about our bad points — especially when I’m the one doing it! On the other hand though, brother Abu Talha, we *do* need to start getting real with ourselves. Some Muslims act like we are perfect, that our problems are all due to “culture, not Islam,” and that we’re not responsible for making any improvements on a worldwide, community, or even personal level. It does require that some Muslims stand up and start pointing out our failings and shortcomings. Allah ta’ala has Said that if we do not act the way He has Commanded us to, He will Replace us with a people better than us.
Bloggers can’t be all things to all people. Can every Muslim blogger address every issue of concern to every Muslim and ever human being and do it in a manner that is both positive and “atta boy!” and critical? Is Tariq any more responsible for writing about the rape of women in Gujurat than you are? Or than any of us are for doing something to stop it again in the future or bring justice to those who planned the mass rapes?
Each of us fills his or her own special niche. Tariq is definitely bringing in some new ideas, thoughts, and discussions about serious problems with the Muslim family and some concerns for Blackamerican Muslims. Umar Lee does his thing; Izzy Mo hers; Yusuf Smith his; and so forth. I don’t think Tariq would ever say that he would rather the indigenous American Muslims achieve dunya over diyn, and it’s unfair to hint that he would. But perhaps Tariq believes that *that* aspect of the discussion has been addressed by someone else already, or that it would be better addressed by someone other than him. Or perhaps as a practicing Muslim, Tariq thinks that his readers will understand that diyn first is a given. Seventy, give him his seventy.
Abu Talha, if you don’t like what Tariq has to say or how he says it, and if you think the rest of the Muslim bloggers are just a bunch of sheeple (which I def. disagree with), then might I suggest you start your own blog. You are obviously seeing something lacking, you obviously think there is a gap to fill. Why not sign up for a free Blogger or WordPress.com account and fill that gap? There is always room for more voices, more suggestions, more ideas, more solutions.
Assalamu Alaikum.
I’m glad you are talking about this, because anti-Semiticism in the Muslim community is a really serious problem. A really serious problem.
Saif.
ok, uhh..AbooTalhah is it?
Why do you feel it necessary to patrol the web looking for misguided and obviously stray (from your point of view) opinions, statements, suggestions, etc. ? Is this your blog? How can you patrol what someone else writes? Who appointed you Internet Khalifah? If you do not like fresh ideas and realistic approaches to real issues then go somewhere else. I’m sure there are plenty of double and triple vowel websites that would be glad to welcome your input.
I know some Muslims feel that it is their duty to search out and destroy ALL ideas that do not fit into their medieval understanding of the world. Lately, however, this high horsed pretentiousness has reached a new level.
“Akh, allow me to benefit you with some naseehah - for obviously you are misguided and in need of my perfect Islamic knowledge…”
Please…
Tariq is a grown ass man! With a wife and kids. Not a just the latest in a string of halaal sex-partners, leaving uneducated and neglected kids in his wake - but a real husband and father.
I know the brother personally. Anyone who questions his Islam or his understanding of deen is, to put it lightly, uninformed and should keep his damn mouth (or keyboard) shut. I’ve gone into nursing homes with this brother. I’ve gone into prisons with this brother. I’ve gone into the streets of some of the roughest neighborhoods you could imagine and all the brother does is call to tawheed. The brother taught me Arabic for 2 years and many others.
So, when he suggests or points out some idea that we should take a closer look at, it is with the understanding that the fundamentals of the deen are a given. That the life of the hereafter is the goal. As someone who knows him personally can attest. He doesn’t have to mention these things but I have no problem doing it. So Abooo…ask the people who know (about Tariq) if you do not know. And if you are sincere about your “naseehah” - then why post “naseehah” on a blog for every one to read?…send him an email. His email is out there for everyone to see…so is mine. Where’s yours? Or is naseehah a public necessity now?
as-salaam alaikum,
Firstly, it is arrant nonesense to claim that Tariq is suffering from a “psychosis of pessimism”. He highlights problems in his community but he also advocates solutions to those problems and it takes only a cursory glance over his blog and the comments posted here to see that.
Secondly, what kind of ‘naseeha’ is it for you to post a public comment to the brother and open it with, “this is only a Naseeha for myself and you” when you known well that everyone else can read it. If you were truly sincere, you would have emailed the brother instead of complaining in the comments of an unrelated post.
Thirdly, I’ve known Tariq for a long time. I don’t think anybody should doubt the brother’s commitment to Islam or the Muslim community. It is unfair and just plain stupid to attempt to judge a brother and diagnose him with some sort of bogus pathology just from reading a blog. People have lives outside their websites and just because he focuses on certain issues here (which are important issues that need to be raised) does not mean for one minute that the brother is neglecting da’wah or anything else. He, like all of us, has a finite amount of time we can dedicate to our weblogs and personally I think it’s better he uses that time to address issues that haven’t been addressed yet rather than write the sort of boilerplate that you suggest he should be writing instead. There already plenty of sites dealing with issues in Kashmir, Chechnya, Palestine and elsewhere, but, as far as I know, this is the only site that gives a sincere and honest look into the problems faced by African American Muslims.
Lastly, if you don’t like what Tariq is saying, then why don’t you start your own site?
AssalamuALikum,
I would like to clarify couple of things here. My post regarding Tariq’s thoughts is based upon him as a blogger. I dont know Tariq personally, and thus i cant comment on what he does in his life. So there is now way i am going to “attack” him as a person. On the other hand, for people who are coming to Tariqs personal defense, i have to say when Tariq/anyone writes on these blogs, they have to presume that majority of the people that might read these blogs have no idea of the person behind them thus their criticism is only directed towards their writing. (For example people can criticize Shakespeare’s play but they cant criticize him as lover, if they didn’t have an affair with him). When Tariq or anybody writes on blogs, they should definitely be open to criticism whether it be true/false, harsh/soft. If everybody agrees and becomes happy go lucky on their “writing” and cant take the “heat”, then they shouldnt write or offer suggestions.
To UMM Zaid: Jazakallhu Khira for the reply
Rashad and Amir: Instead of defending Tariq’s personality etc… all you had to do was just pinpoint my errors by giving examples from Tariq’s blog and I would agrees. Instead you didn’t do that, you defended Tariq the person, whom I don’t know, I want make it clear, I can only criticize what I see online through his writing. And Beloved brother Rashad, no I am not an internet Khalifa. If I somebody puts something on a public platform, and gives me the option of commenting and If I feel the need, to say something I will say it. Everybody in the Public arena whether in a small or a big capacity makes themselves open to such criticism. Lastly, if people criticize that dosent necessarily mean they have to open their own site and air their views.
Tariq: Akhi if I offended you with my comment, forgive me. Even though I stand by my comments, it was done so that you could respond by defending your point of view, if you felt the need to do so.
You’re backpeddling AbooTalhah…
“My post regarding Tariq’s thoughts is based upon him as a blogger. I dont know Tariq personally, and thus i cant comment on what he does in his life. So there is now way i am going to “attack” him as a person. ”
“you are stuck in a psychosis of pessimism.”
Ok, so, while admitting that you do not know Tariq after seeing that the people who know him will speak up on his behalf…you still stand by your pop-psychology diagnosis of him suffering from a “psychosis of pessimism”? How did you (I’m assuming you’re trained in the field of psychology) come to this conclusion about the mental health of Mr. Nelson?
Ahh…but you’re only criticizing “Tariq…the blogger”, right. So who suffers from the “psychosis of pessimism” again? Tariq the person whom you do not know and have never had the opportunity to evaluate…or is it Tariq the blogger who suffers from your newly invented psychological category?
You cannot have it both ways Aboo…
“Rashad and Amir: Instead of defending Tariq’s personality etc… all you had to do was just pinpoint my errors by giving examples from Tariq’s blog and I would agrees. Instead you didn’t do that, you defended Tariq the person, whom I don’t know,…”
His personality was never an issue. Did I mention anything concerning his personality? His personality consists of what kind of sports he likes, his artistic interests, his sense of humor, his taste in women, etc….
No, you questioned his committment (or your perception of the lack thereof) to worshipping Allah and calling the people to it. You questioned his priorities concerning this life and the next…
“And as for your solutions, not even one word was mentioned about worshiping Allah, following his commands and Akhi you know through the hadeeth, that if you desire Dunya, Allah is going to give you nothing, and if you work for Akhira Allah is going to give you dunya and Akhira.”
And finally, you assumed that he believed the reports that came out of Seattle like some kind of naiive child who does not understand that sensationalism is what drives most inaccurate news reports initially…that is until the real story begins to be sorted out. All he did was post a link to the story. He never said that he believed or disbelieved in the first news reports. But you said…
“But no! instead of verifying the news from fasiqoon you believe it wholeheartedly.”
See, unlike you, I can pick up the phone and call the brother and talk. So I don’t have to make assumptions and accusations and make them public. YOU are the one who did not verify what he did or did not believe. You just hurled the accusation. Don’t play games here man. You wrote what you wrote and it’s out there for everyone to see.
As Salaamu Alaikum to All:
Firstly I really don’t like the tone of the whole discussion we as Muslims should keep in mind to who we are talking lest we forget we are brothers. Brother Tariq is my closest friend and I love the brother for the sake of Allah. I strongly disagree with the brother on a lot of issues and will vehemently defend my viewpoint. Yet we always manage to keep the tone respectfull and give salaams at the end of our conversations with nothing in our hearts whatsoever. I would like to remind our Brothers Rashad and AbooTalhaa to try to put their emotions in their proper place and give your brother the benefit of the doubt. This is something we fail to do so often, too often we blast a brother seeking nothing more than to humilate them or maybe we are offended at what we perceive from them at feel our anger is somehow rightous and justified. This is not to say we cannot passionately defend our viewpoints, and you can ask Tariq I have been known to raise my voice an octive or two. However we must always keep in mind this is my Brother and I love him for the sake of Allah. Please note not once in this response did I use the word YOU….until now
With all due respect Rasheed,
I don’t write or speak for the purpose of you ‘liking’ the tone of what I write. If you want to “remind” me of something, send me an email.